Dustin Magaziner of PayBright: How To Be Great At Sales Without Seeming Salesy
“For me, I’m always trying to upgrade my method of communication. If I’m talking to somebody via email, can I schedule a phone call? Or can I even schedule an in-person meeting? If so, that becomes an advantage in my favor.”
As a part of my series about how to be great at closing sales without seeming pushy, obnoxious, or salesy, I had the pleasure of interviewing Dustin Magaziner, CEO of PayBright.
Dustin Magaziner is CEO of PayBright, founded in 2021 with the motto “Merchant Services, Done Right.” Top to bottom, PayBright is focused on providing agents and ISOs, and in turn their merchants, with the absolute best experience in the industry. By offering the absolute best rates, no contracts, free terminals and POS for each merchant and true transparency, PayBright has found a way to set itself apart in an industry of little differentiation. Feel free to reach out to Dustin with any questions at dustin@gopaybright.com.
Thank you for doing this with us! Before we dig in, our readers would like to learn a bit more about you. Can you tell us the “backstory” about what brought you to this career path?
Igot started in merchant services at 19 while in college. I was really looking for a way to add a little bit of income so I could pay for some pizza and hang out with some friends.
But what started as a very basic opportunity turned into a whole lot more. While in college I was outside selling to businesses door-to-door and it turns out, I was better at it than I expected.
I graduated from college and in 3 1/2 years of selling, had signed over 600 merchant accounts and had a booming merchant base. It definitely wasn’t the career path I expected, but I certainly have no regrets.
Can you share with our readers the most interesting or amusing story that occurred to you in your career so far? Can you share the lesson or take away you took out of that story?
It’s tough to point out the most interesting or amusing story that’s occurred in my career so far. There really are too many to cover and oftentimes it’s difficult just to remember them all!
But one story that I remember vividly is when I was just shy of turning 20, spending about two hours or so trying to get a new liquor store set up. We were having some minor technical issues and it was taking longer than usual and no one would’ve expected that I wasn’t yet 21. So this liquor store owner is sitting there offering me shot after shot after shot which I’m politely turning down as he was getting more or less wasted! There are tons of crazy stories, many of which I would probably not share, but overall this is one that I find funny simply because of the age discrepancy between myself and the owner there.
Are you working on any exciting new projects now? How do you think that will help people?
We are always working on new projects, several of which I’m very excited by. Since I got started in the business, PayBright has drastically changed from being an organization of mostly myself outside selling to having more than 300 agents out in the field selling merchant services on our behalf.
My day-to-day is very different now and I spend my time asking the question, “What can I do to help our sales partners sell more?” Another lens I look at it from is when I was out in the field, what sort of things did I wish that I had when I started way back when. We are always asking our sales partners, “What can we be doing to help them sell more business for us?”
None of us are able to achieve success without some help along the way. Is there a particular person who you are grateful towards who helped get you to where you are? Can you share a story about that?
I believe mentorship is crucial. For me, the people that I really think were helpful were the early adopters — my first merchants. There were literally several businesses that I signed up telling them that I really didn’t know what I was doing. But what I told them is that I knew I would be making next to nothing in commissions on their account because I was willing to give it to them at cost.
As a college student, I didn’t need to make much money to survive so if I made $10, I was frankly pretty happy. I was able to tell business owners, “Let me make a few dollars, next to nothing, and I’m sure it’ll be better than what you have today.” Overall there were quite a few businesses who were willing to buy in and adopt this mentality, and they were the people that really allowed me to learn and grow. So, the people that I’m super thankful for and grateful for were my earliest adopters and my first merchants — the majority of which I still have to this day.
For the benefit of our readers, can you tell us a bit why you are an authority on the topic of sales?
I consider myself an authority on sales because I’ve personally sold over 650 merchant accounts in 3 1/2 years. In our industry, the average salesperson sells probably about 30 to 40 accounts per year and I was doing way more than that.
More importantly, since my days out in the field, we’ve transitioned to having a fairly large team which I manage, and I’ve helped our sales team close thousands of accounts over the last several years.
I spend a large portion of my time working with our sales team helping them develop their sales skills and close deals. I also try to improve our sales processes by analyzing sales from a scientific, evidence-based perspective.
Ok. Thanks for all that. Let’s now jump to the main core of our interview. As you know, nearly any business a person will enter, will involve some form of sales. At the same time, most people have never received any formal education about how to be effective at selling. Why do you think our education system teaches nearly every other arcane subject, but sales, one of the most useful and versatile topics, is totally ignored?
It truly drives me nuts that sales isn’t something that’s taught in a more formal manner. I am someone who believes that sales is a skill that can be learned and taught just as much as it’s an art. There’s no doubt that being naturally gifted helps, but repetition, experience, training, and education go a long way. I tend to think the reason why it’s ignored in more formal schooling is because sales is something people generally consider to be a gift or something that somebody’s naturally good at.
You hear it all the time, “This person is a natural salesperson“ or that they could “sell ice to an Eskimo“. This mentality only further pushes the idea that sales isn’t something that needs to be taught but instead is something that you’re born with. I don’t believe that this is entirely true.
This discussion, entitled, “How To Be Great At Sales Without Seeming Salesy”, is making an assumption that seeming salesy or pushy is something to be avoided. Do you agree with this assumption? Whether yes, or no, can you articulate why you feel the way you do?
I don’t believe that being salesy is inherently bad. But I do believe that when the person you’re selling to feels that you’re being salesy or pushy, it can oftentimes be off putting. I think the real crux of the conversation or topic leans on the concept of how the person you’re selling to feels about your approach as opposed to if your approach is actually salesy or not.
For example, if I’m doing sales right, I’m to some extent being salesy. I’m asking questions, I’m seeing what product I offer makes the most sense for you, I am bringing out paperwork eventually or asking for the sale. I’m asking for micro commitments and a whole lot more. But my tone, my verbiage and what I’m saying, as well as just my demeanor and attitude, will impact how salesy I’m perceived and that may in turn impact how that customer feels about the experience. Sales is as much an emotional decision as it is a business or economic decision.
And it’s important that the prospective customer feels good about the entire process as well. I won’t name names but there’s a company that I called ready to buy their product, but because the sales process was so poor and their salespeople made it such a miserable experience, I actually spent more time and more money to find a competitor who to this day I believe has an inferior product but I bought from them solely to avoid the first company. If management were to change, I would happily buy from them but I can’t do business with them due to the way that their current processes are and I know many other customers who feel the same.
The seven stages of a sales cycle are usually broken down to versions of Prospecting, Preparation, Approach, Presentation, Handling objections, Closing, and Follow-up. Which stage do you feel that you are best at? What is your unique approach, your “secret sauce”, to that particular skill? Can you explain or give a story?
It’s tricky to say, but if I had to narrow it down to one, I would probably say my top skill is handling objections.
I’ve always thought quickly on my feet and have been able to address a customer’s concerns using logic. I’ve always believed in common-sense responses. If the issue is that the prospect is under contract, I don’t want to talk about why my customer service is amazing. My customer service may be amazing, but it’s not helping the prospect determine what to do with their current contract’s cancellation fee.
I always believed that if the issue was A, well then, let’s tackle A. If your issue is your contract with your current company, let’s talk about how my company will buy you out of that or how the savings will cover that in a short period of time.
I always believe in tackling objections head-on and it’s always been a strength of mine. Part of that is also making sure that if I get an objection I’m not ready for, that I don’t fall for that same mistake again. Every time I had an objection that stumped me, I would write it down and make sure that I was ready for it again.
I’ve seen some crazy objections. I had one business owner tell me that because I wasn’t freshly shaven, he wouldn’t do business with me because it was unprofessional. I had another business owner tell me that I was too young. I had another business owner who told me that because I didn’t own a gun, I wasn’t culturally a good fit for him. These are all real objections that I faced and they’re all objections that if I faced again, I would be confident that I would have a solid response and will be able to move the conversation forward. For example I’m too young, that just means I’m not going anywhere and I’m in it for the long-haul. I don’t carry a gun, that’s true, but if you’re good enough account, maybe it just means I’m not a threat.
Lead generation, or prospecting, is one of the basic steps of the sales cycle. Obviously every industry will be different, but can you share some of the fundamental strategies you use to generate good, qualified leads?
Lead generation is the lifeblood of most salespeople and certainly salespeople in our business. I always believed that lead generation wasn’t a singular focus. Do you want to have multiple sources? I also look at lead generation kind of like farming versus hunting. Cold calling, whether in person door-to-door or by phone, is sort of like hunting. You’re looking for your next prospect and if you know what you’re doing you’ll know what your closing ratios are and can more or less have very consistent numbers.
Networking, on the other hand, and a combination of marketing campaigns online or otherwise, is somewhat like farming. You may have a little less direct control, but if you spend enough time, energy, and potential resources on it, your farming for those initiatives will yield results.
I always found my sweet spot to be in the middle. I spent a lot of time cold calling and while I never let up with it, I was also able to utilize my prospects and referral sources. I signed dozens of deals from business owners who referred me to businesses even if they weren’t my customer. I set up a system so that I asked for referrals at very specific times during my sales process. And one of those instances was every single time I was told No.
No problem, Mr. Business Owner, I understand that my services may not be a good fit for you today. I’ll certainly make sure to pop back in about 60 to 90 days because I have no doubt that I’ll be a better fit for you than your current provider. But what I’d love to do is help any other business owners you may know here in the area who I can provide value to today. Do you happen to know either your neighbors or any other businesses here in the area?
You’d be surprised how many businesses I signed off of referrals from business owners I did not work with. And by signing their relationships or their contacts, it would lead to being able to do business with them later on as well.
In my experience, I think the final stages of Handling Objections, Closing, and Follow-up, are the most difficult parts for many people. Why do you think ‘Handling Objections’ is so hard for people? What would you recommend for one to do, to be better at ‘Handling Objections’?
I think handling objections is challenging for salespeople because there are a few things they lack:
Sales training from their company
Preparation on their end
A natural ability to think on their feet
With item 2, you can essentially neutralize item 3 — but without items 1 and 2, 3 becomes much more important.
For me, one of the most important parts of sales is recognizing that your job isn’t necessarily to do the same thing over and over again. Instead, you have to figure out what it is you should do over and over again that will actually work.
If I recognize that when a business owner says XYZ, and I reply with the same response, but it doesn’t work very well, I need to fix that. I need to think of it like an athlete watching themselves on a recording. If their strategy isn’t working, they need to fix it. And it’s the same with sales. If I’m getting an objection and I’m not combating it effectively with a relatively high percentage, I need to go back and spend time thinking through it and working on it.
Consistency is important as is the analytical approach to look at what isn’t isn’t working and then fix the part that’s not. Hopefully, good sales training will also give you these answers, so you don’t have to entirely figure them out on your own.
‘Closing’ is of course the proverbial Holy Grail. Can you suggest 5 things one can do to successfully close a sale without being perceived as pushy? If you can, please share a story or example, ideally from your experience, for each.
There are definitely a number of strategies for closing itself.
My personal favorite has always been simple: the assumptive sale. I would simply just pull out paperwork and start filling it out with the merchant. No awkward ask or anything otherwise. But that doesn’t mean it was always the perfect approach or the perfect answer — it’s just my personal favorite.
Another approach I always like to remind my salespeople is to simply ask for the sale. I think far too often sales people forget to ask.
Third, another important step is to ask when they may be ready or what you can do to get the deal done. It’s important that everyone understands the purpose of the interactions and that purpose is to make a deal happen. So either you may not be asking for the sale right then and there, you’re asking your prospect what we can do to move it forward and then obviously deliver that.
I’m also a big fan of leaving a meeting with the expectation of closing at the next meeting. So, for example, if I’m giving a presentation to a business owner, and I don’t necessarily expect to close them right then and there, or they tell me they need to think about it, look over the numbers or get with their business partner or their spouse, I like to make sure that I let them know that’s no problem — but that when I come back next week, I expect to have a decision one way or the other.
No problem, Mr. Business Owner, how about I follow up with you next Tuesday at 3 pm? When I come in one way or the other I’d love to move things forward. Of course, I would love to be able to sign you up — I know our service will save you a lot of money and will be a great solution. We are certainly better than the bank you’re currently using, and I have no doubt you’ll see this right away. But ultimately, I’d love to make sure that we have a decision one way or the other next week. Does that sound like a plan to you?
Finally: the free trial approach. This isn’t necessarily a great option for all industries, but it is a great option for mine. I start with something along the lines of:
Hey, Mr. Business Owner, I understand you’re on the fence and unsure right now. But what I would love to do is get you set up for 30 days with absolutely no risk to you. We are entirely month-to-month and there’s absolutely no set-up fees for us. The only risk you have is how much money you’ll save or how much better our services are. How about we take care of three minutes worth of paperwork, and I’ll have a new machine here for you in two days, and if whatever reason you’re unhappy, you can cancel at any time with absolutely no penalty whatsoever.
Finally, what are your thoughts about ‘Follow up’? Many businesses get leads who might be interested but things never seem to close. What are some good tips for a business leader to successfully follow up and bring things to a conclusion, without appearing overly pushy or overeager?
Leads that don’t close, or what I would like to call the “maybes“, can be really painful for sales people.
For me, we need to be looking for a Yes or a No. Anything in between, long-term, isn’t great and ends up derailing a salesperson‘s process and time. I always like to be able to have my own ability to recognize if a prospect is truly interested or not and, if I am unsure, I simply will make sure to say things that help me figure it out.
So many sales people are afraid to get a No, so they avoid it without realizing that they aren’t getting any closer to a Yes. Avoiding a No is not the same thing as getting closer to a Yes. I think that’s something crucial for agents and salespeople to remember. My goal is always a Yes or a No. If there’s anything in between that, I need to be making sure I’m moving towards one or the other.
One strategy for this is to preface the purpose of the next meeting:
Hey, Mr. Business Owner, when I come back next week, my goal is to do paperwork. Does it sound like a plan to you?
Another strategy might be:
Hey, Mr. Business Owner, I’ve been in here a couple of times already, I just wanted to see where your head’s at. I don’t want to waste your time — I understand that it’s valuable. What can I do to help make this decision easier for you and hopefully move things along?
As you know there are so many modes of communication today. For example, In-person, phone calls, video calls, emails, and text messages. In your opinion, which of these communication methods should be avoided when attempting to close a sale or follow up? Which are the best ones? Can you explain or give a story?
I don’t believe anything should necessarily be avoided. There’s a time and place for all of them. What I do think is important is that salespeople recognize that there is an order of magnitude to the value of different methods of communication — and we want to do our best to not downgrade our own prospects.
In my eyes, the modes of communication ranked from best to worst are the following: in-person, video, phone call, text message, and email.
Far too often, I see a sales person have a really great interaction with an in-person meeting but then they don’t schedule a follow-up in-person meeting or they schedule a follow-up via email. If I can get that prospect to follow-up with me in-person, I have more of their attention, more of their time, a more definitive plan — and most importantly, a higher ability to close the deal.
For me, I’m always trying to upgrade my method of communication. If I’m talking to somebody via email, can I schedule a phone call? Or can I even schedule an in-person meeting? If so, that becomes an advantage in my favor.
Ok, we are nearly done. Here is our final “meaty” question. You are a person of enormous influence. If you could inspire a movement that would bring the most amount of good to the greatest amount of people, what would that be? You never know what your idea can trigger. :-)
If this question is referring to a movement that would inspire people in the business world, it would 100 percent have to be on the ethics of businesses themselves.
I’m a big believer in having transparent communication, terms, agreements, and pricing. And it’s far too common that businesses take advantage of their customers. Unfortunately, my industry is full of this. Most of my competitors have non-transparent pricing, unfair (and, in some states even illegal) business practices, unethical (and arguably predatory) leasing in equipment terms, and ever-changing rates with minimal to no disclosure to their customers.
These sorts of things to me don’t meet a basic level of ethics let alone a level that is acceptable. If I were able to influence some form of change, it would be on business practices and, specifically, ethics.
How can our readers follow you online?
The best way to follow me would be on LinkedIn, https://www.linkedin.com/in/dmagaziner/. Additionally another great way of course is to shoot me an email, dustin@gopaybright.com.
Thank you for the interview. We wish you only continued success!